RWS council – Is it or isn’t it?

Posted on October 19th, 2007 in RWS by ramore

Got a question in that comes up from time to time. Is the patch in the following picture a red and white council strip?

Boy Scout Kit Carson community strip

The answer in this specific case is no. Here’s why. The convention is that if the city exists and the strip does not say “Council” or some variation then it is a community strip. There was a Kit Carson Council headquartered in Albuquerque, NM that changed to Great Southwest Area in 1976. But there are also two “Kit Carson” cities in the U.S.. One is in Colorado and one is in California.

As with any rule, there are a few exceptions but it is hard to think of them. For a long time, the “GREENWICH” half strip has been associated with Greenwich Council and probably is from there but there are other Greenwich cities so it really should be considered a community strip. The “BOSTON” half strip is considered to be a council strip as there is not another Boston other than in Masachusetts.

P.S. Thanks to Roger Schustereit for bringing this to my attention.

9 Responses to 'RWS council – Is it or isn’t it?'

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  1. Dave said,

    on October 23rd, 2007 at 4:19 pm

    I assume there’s also some flexibility in the “rule” when the provenance is known or documented. So if a “Kit Carson” strip as pictured were found at a flea market in Albuquerque on an old shirt with a 1960s Ya-Tah-Hey-Si-Kess patch, it would be a council RWHS. (And a wise collector would certainly leave it on the shirt.)

  2. ramore said,

    on October 24th, 2007 at 8:54 am

    Dave,
    There’s some ‘flexibility’ but as soon as it gets separated from the shirt then there needs to be some documentation (I guess a picture would help.)
    I’ve got in my collection a ‘Kaskaskia’ BWS (Sea Scout strip.) There is a Kaskaskia, IL as a city but the council it is in never had a Sea Scout ship. Kaskaskia Council did have a Sea Scout ship (and I have documentation about it). So I consider it a council strip. It helps that I have it .:-)

  3. John Pannell said,

    on October 28th, 2007 at 6:11 am

    There’s at least one other “Boston”: Boston, NY:

    http://www.townofboston.com/

    I use this as an example as I knew it from memory. I’m sure others could be found.

    So, following the general rule the “Boston” half-strip should also be considered a community strip, too.

  4. David Sutherland said,

    on January 25th, 2008 at 12:16 am

    The Greenwich half-strip is indeed a community strip as council staff and commissioners would wear a Greenwich Council strip.

  5. Rob Kutz said,

    on February 15th, 2008 at 7:50 pm

    There are many examples like those cited above. When Art Hyman and I wrote/edited the RWS book series, and during the time I wrote the RWS articles for SCQ and the ISCA Journal, I always held that there had to be good provenance for calling a patch that could be both a community strip and a council strip the latter. Having it on a uniform with period items from the council certainly helps, and I would definitely not remove the strip from such a uniform, but with the price of council strips skyrocketing in recent years it wouldn’t be hard for someone to add a strip to a uniform that previously held a different patch, so even a uniform shirt might not hold sway these days. The more “proof” one can muster for such a patch, the better.

  6. ramore said,

    on February 16th, 2008 at 1:10 am

    Rob,
    I fully agree – provenance helps but ‘just because its on a uniform’ doesn’t necessarily make it so. I have a Sea Scout strip, I need to post it come to think of it, that says ‘Kaskaskia’. Now that is a city but it is also a council. The city never had a Sea Scout ship but the council did. Further, I’ve got a picture of a Scouter in Sea Scout uniform with the strip and his scrap book.

  7. Blaine Bachman said,

    on May 31st, 2009 at 12:20 am

    I have a red-on-green community strip that reads “Midnight Sun” that I found when I lived near Fairbanks Alaska. The Council there is Midnight Sun Council and AFAIK there is no community with that name.

  8. ramore said,

    on June 15th, 2009 at 10:50 am

    Blaine,
    I saw your comment about Midnight Sun in khaki and red. That IS a recognized council strip for this council. It also exists in red and white.

    Regards,
    Roy

  9. Michael Jacobson said,

    on May 1st, 2013 at 1:26 am

    Blaine and Roy,
    I have three of the khaki and red Midnight Sun strips, and although it is recognized as
    a council strip, it is more correctly a district
    strip as it was part of Alaska Council at that
    time. Midnight Sun did not become a council until 1960. The same applies to the
    red and white that was in use when the district was part of Western Alaska Council.
    There may have been some overlap when the Midnight Sun Council was formed as the
    earliest reference to the original red and
    white full strip-Midnight Sun/Council (no
    state) that I know of is c. 1961/2. Hope this
    helps. Michael

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