2 Responses to 'Changes to Northern Illinois and Indiana Councils'

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1. Roy said,
   
   

   on August 4th, 2014 at 10:19 am

   From Facebook on this:

   Mark Frazier agreed.
   22 hrs · Like

   Woolmer Shaun Before me know it every state will have one council!
   22 hrs · Like · 2

   Darrin Cranford ^^^^ agreed
   22 hrs · Like

   Roy More The problems are deeper here than is being let on in this communication.
   22 hrs · Like · 3

   Steve Narolski Thank you, Roy, for passing this information on to us…
   22 hrs · Like · 2

   Mike McAdams Soon, we are going to have to go back to the equivalent of Red & White Community strips so we know where we are from.
   21 hrs · Unlike · 4

   Michael Dennehy I would like to hear from Illinois and Indiana scouts and scouters as to what they think of this. Also, what do you lower Michigan dudes have to say as to how the big 2012 Michigan merger is going as far as membership and program?
   21 hrs · Like

   Roy More Actually Mike McAdams that is one of the suggestions we’ve made in Michigan. We need to get back to communities owning their Scouting program and if putting their community on their shoulder helps with that, then the better. CSPs came about as Councils wanted to cut the cost of unused RWS that they got stuck with for small communities when units went away. Possibly penny-wise and pound foolish.
   21 hrs · Like · 1

   Roy More Michael Dennehy From Michigan, where I’m on the Board, it is a work in process. We’ve hired roughly 50% more USE’s. Our camping took a big hit in council in 2013 with camp closures but this year its bounced back and is plus 20% or so. Membership is tracking national averages.
   21 hrs · Like

   Michael Dennehy Glad to see the camping rebound.
   21 hrs · Like

   Roy More There were some “bent noses” but then they started to hear from others the good experiences they had at the camps that were operating and “came back”. In 2012 (and before) we had camps running 2 and 3 weeks of summer camp. Does not allow to get the best staff or the funds to maintain and enhance facilities. We have easily 2 times the capacity of current camping. The camp liability for many councils, and part of the source of the merger in this announcement, is that we’re running at 40% utilization or less. That’s too much overhead (unless we were to blow out camp prices which is not part of our value system.)
   21 hrs · Like · 1

   Michael Dennehy Is it safe to assume the 40% utilization figure was before closing some under-performing properties? What does utilization look like now for the approx. dozen facilities you guys are still operating?
   20 hrs · Like

   Michael Dennehy I mean, if you have only 40% now, then you must have had some financial black holes before.
   20 hrs · Like

   Mike McAdams I’d like to see the return to community strips. When the council becomes region sized, it no longer represents the individual units. The “council” or region could stock common community names (those with more than a few units) and smaller communities c…See More
   19 hrs · Like

   Roy More Michael Dennehy the 40% was before changes. After we’re in the high 80s and might re-open another camp for Boy Scout summer camp. Still it is sub-optimal as three non-Michigan councils operate camps in Michigan.
   19 hrs · Like

   Roy More And yes there were black holes before.
   19 hrs · Like

   Roy More Woolmer Shaun My guess is about 30 -50 councils for the country. Council design was born 80 – 100 years ago – before the interstate, before the internet,…. Now within that though, we need more community Scouting organizations/councils. In Michigan, w…See More
   13 hrs · Like · 2

   Chuck Dellert I do not know what the finance model of this modern era should be, but I do agree that we need to get back to a model of community ownership of units, their organization, and their operation. For too long we have been operating on a numbers and money model which has proven to be unsustainable.
   13 hrs · Unlike · 1

   Roy More Chuck Dellert we are also carrying too much in legacy costs in property and certain personnel.
   12 hrs · Like · 1

   Chuck Dellert Maybe we should go back to a bunch of second class councils with camps and administration taken care of by areas or regions
   12 hrs · Like · 2

   Chuck Dellert Roy More In this modern era, do we need as much property as councils currently own?
   12 hrs · Like

   Chuck Dellert Numbers of campers are down and costs keep rising. How is this sustainable?
   12 hrs · Like

   Roy More Yes we have too many properties. And too many of them are in poor, aging condition. I remember talking with a Scouter who was involved in the purchase of one of our camps (since sold). He said a directive went out in the 1960s to acquire camp property with a wholly owned lake as the prediction was that such properties would be unavailable or unaffordable in the future. That is 50 years ago and five generations of Scouts ago. What was not factored in what happens if there is a membership decline or shift in membership mix.
   2 mins · Like

   Roy More It is somewhat analogous to what municipalities are facing with excess infrastructure and not “banking” the maintenance dollars for upkeep (and not evaluating whether upkeep is justified).
   Just now · Like

2. Eden Fantasys said,
   
   

   on April 10th, 2019 at 1:48 am

   The Buffalo Trace Council is a Boy Scout council based in Evansville, Indiana that serves southwestern Indiana and southeastern Illinois. Its affiliated Order of the Arrow lodge is Kiondaga Lodge. Buffalo Trace Council

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