Destry and I were just talking about, for us, the interesting parts of collections are often the paper materials as these give the history. In a small accumulation we got last week it included a little eight page booklet of uniforms for adult leaders. It is from Sigmund Eisner which dates it from 1910 to 1932 with the badges on the sleeve being outlined would place it into the 1920s to early 1930s.

I’ve scanned it in here as actually this is a rare item. It provides wonderful full-color drawings of the uniforms. In Chief Scout Executive James West’s introduction he notes that leaders are obligated, in setting the example, to only use official BSA uniforms (and with profits obviously flowing to the National Office.)

It shows some rarely seen items – the Lumberjack Shirt and the Scout Mackinaw coat. It also lists the types of cloth available including Melton (see my video with Paul Myers about some of these early types of cloth), two weights of Serge, Whipcord, and Gabardine. On the back it indicates that a leader could get made-to-measure, i.e., custom-fitted, uniforms. All in all, very trick IMHO.

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In the category of ‘things forgotten but now remembered’, we recently handled a proof edition of the Scoutmaster handbook. A question from a collector got us digging into our reference shelves as there are actually four variations of the “PROOF” edition. The editions range from 203 pages, this one circa 1912, two versions with 161 pages and the final proof edition with 344 pages from March, 1913. The quantity made of the first three are unknown.

The reference book of choice is Chuck Fisk and Doug Bearce’s Collecting Scouting Literature/2nd edition published in 1990. And thus the ‘things forgotten’ observation – this book is 2o years old and yet its still the best, and most accessible out there but most current collectors do not know of this book. Not sure the solution to this problem – how do we keep these books up to date and let folks know about them.

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A friend set me a link to a current eBay listing for a 1937 camporee patch from California.

Now in general, any patch dated prior to 1940 in BSA memorabilia is pretty scarce. One would think this would be especially true for council activity patches. The exception to this is for California councils. There are several. They come up regularly. Not sure why this is. As I replied to my friend:

Not seen this before but what’s interesting is that there are a fair number of 1930s era California council activity patches. More so than many other areas of the country. Not sure why as CA wasn’t what it is now.

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At this year’s ISCA Dallas Trade-o-ree Terry Grove presented one of the educational sessions on his research into Eagle Scout paper – letters, certificates, membership cards and more. We worked with Terry to record the session but have been struggling with YouTube time limits. YouTube’s now authorized us to post long form videos so here’s the both parts of Terry’s session. As an aside, these educational sessions are one of the great features of the Dallas TOR. Held at the end of January, TOR sponsors and hosts Ron Aldridge and Dave Thomas make sure folks have a good time. IMHO it is THE annual national show.

2011 ISCA Meeting presentation on Eagle Scout memorabilia — Part 1

Here’s the 2nd part:

Eagle Scout memorabilia presentation at 2011 ISCA Meeting — Part 2

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We recently placed a 1924 World Jamboree merit badge sash with the first Eagle patch on it. We’ve been asked how one can identify such a thing. Well several ways but first some history.

Prior to the 1924 World Jamboree the BSA did not sell a merit badge sash. Scouts and Scouters, who could earn merit badges at that time, were left to their own devices. If you only had a few merit badges you would sew them on your shirt sleeve. If you had lots of merit badges, you could keep going up your sleeve. The Scouts DID sell a false sleeve, a snappable sleeve to wrap around your shirt sleeve that one could sew on more merit badges if they did not fit the shirt or if you did not want to wash the badges when you washed the shirt.

We have examples of home made sashes as well. Here’s an example of one that is almost a bandelero that goes over the shoulder and around the waist. Because of the type of badges on the sash, we know its a “teens era” sash.

Also, prior to 1924 there was no patch for the Eagle rank. There was only the medal.

What made the 1924 World Jamboree special, in Chief Scout Executive James West’s perspective, was that participation was limited due to the camp size and that there was going to be Scout competitions between countries. West wanted to win and to visually have the sharpest looking contingent. Thus he had made up an Eagle patch and tailored merit badge sashes so all were consistent.

So how can one tell if you have a 1924 sash or Eagle patch? Here’s a picture of one we just placed. Note on the Eagle patch where the tips of the gray scroll extend into the white oval. Later issues stop at the edge. Then on the sash, the patches were sewn onto the khaki cloth and THEN the border/piping for the sash was sewn. Thus the border covers the edges of the merit badges. These sashes exist as two-wide and three-wide.

Update: Terry’s helped point out a needed correction in my write-up:

Only the first aid merit badge is sewn onto the khaki.  The rest of the merit badges are actually part of the sash.  The merit badge sash was two ply.  The top ply was cut so that the merit badges (sewn together) could be sewn into the ply and become part of the ply. The border was then applied to finish the look all around the sash.

Close-up of how merit badges were sewn into the sash in 1924

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That was the question I received from collector friend Roger Schustereit of Texas who is helping out another friend that inherited a collection in 1998. As Roger asked:

I am sending this at the request of my friend, XX.  XX is the person who gave me the information on the origin of the 307 R3 I wrote the article on way back when.  It was his home that had the fire that left the patches smoke damaged &, when cleaned, the blue was not color fast.

Anyway, XX is now selling some Scout items on eBay (Akcent).  He wants to be fair to Uncle Sugar for tax purposes.  He inherited the items in 1998 & would like to know a general percentage Scout items have increased or decreased in value since 1998.  I had no idea, but I thought of you immediately.  If you can’t help, no one can.  I know you like a good challenge, so here is a great one.  Will appreciate any help you might offer.

Probably hoping for a simple answer all I could say was no such luck. It depends upon what one has.  Here’s my first response:

But it matters what he has. If he’s got Scout mugs – that’s 100% decline in value. Same for modern handbooks. If he’s got early 1950s OA, good stuff is up, common stuff is down. If its 70′s era OA, its flat to down. If its insignia, its flat to up. If its camp patches, its up to really up. If its CSPs its generally down but red&white community strips are up by a factor of 10 to 20 times higher. …..

Depends upon the area. I know I may be over analyzing but if he’s going to use my observation for tax purposes I need to be able to defend it. There are items that have pulled back from 5 years ago but are still twice what they were in 1998.

I then got into looking at his listings and made these notes:

I just looked at some of the items he has:

1998 value for the N/C slides – $2 – $3 each – now selling for $10 – $25
Philmont patch with segments – he’s asking $300. Fair market if sewn is $85 – $100. Price in 1998 – $150
Region 9 jewelry pieces – in 1998 $5/each – 2011 – $10 – $30 each
1950 Jambo canvas patch – 1998 $25 – 2011 $20
1953 Jambo patch – 1998 $25 – 2011 $20

1950 Jambo emb. patch – 1998 $40 – 2011 $25-$40 so either no change or a decline.

1955 Silber WJ buckle – 1998 $125-$150 – 2011 current bid is $52 may go to $75.

So depending upon what he’s got, his stuff has gone down 40% or gone up 600%. Its not one number. Now this is assuming he wants to be honest with the IRS. And they’re one group I’m honest with.

In reflecting on this further, back in 1998 one could buy community strips for $0.10 to $0.25 each. Now they can bring $3 – $30. And for those who are math challenged that’s a 3000% to 30,000% increase in 13 years from the low end. I’ll have to dig into this deeper for things like First Flaps. More later.

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Got a question in from a collector out of central Indiana. Its a stumper to Destry and I but maybe someone else in hobby knows what is this medal?

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The internet is helping the hobby slowly but surely. I just fielded a call with collector Gary Ives. He’s on the hunt for a variety of the Harmon Foundation Scholarship Award pin for Eagle Scouts. He’s put up a web-site on Eagle pins (click on the menu that says “Eagle Scout Pins). The pin he’s looking for was issued from 1927 – 1931 (5 years) with 52 awarded a year for a total of 260 making it one of the rarest Eagle pins issued.

What was neat was in going through his site I saw a pin we’ve had but not really known who issued it.

As his site points out it is for the Order of the Oh-hit-e-kah pin which Kelly Williams informed him was an early Eagle recognition program like the Knights of Dunamis in Oakland Area Council (CA) circa 1926-1929. Now we can post this information, share it and learn. Neat!

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Or sub-titled “Where have all the great rank insignia gone?”

Yesterday I fielded two separate e-mails from very senior collectors about early rank insignia. One was about a Type-3 Life patch (the red knot with HOR red embroidery circa 1919) and the other was about an early Tenderfoot Achievement 2 patch (this was the rank program for disabled Scouts in the 1930s-1940s).

My responses to each separately was the same but different. That is, these are incredibly rare and seldom seen patches. And that their values are understated in the current market precisely because they’re not seen. These can be found for less than their scarcity would indicate but even if you have an open checkbook you can’t find them when you want them. Go figure. For the first, the T-3 Life (and we’re using Paul Myers’ book on Rank Insignia in Color for catalog numbers), we’ve NEVER had one come through in the collections we’ve handled!

In the random rumblings in my head as this discontinuity rattles around I’m thinking there are several pieces/examples of Scout insignia memorabilia that come to mind that are not seen these days. Here’s some of what’s on my list:

• Type 3-Life (red knot, HOR red)
• Veteran patches 15yrs and above on SS white or blue
• Life with yellow knot outside of heart on SS blue or especially SS white
• Rover Rambler pin (do collectors even know what this is?)
• Type 1 Tenderfoot (yes this is the lowest rank but originally the rank was represented by a pin. The patch did not come out until 1924 and the design was quickly changed).
• Tenderfoot Patrol Leader Bugler or T’foot Patrol Leader Scribe (basically a Scout had both positions, PL & bugler or scribe, and their rank was Tenderfoot). Paul taunts us by showing one of these on the cover of his reference work.

What’s on yours?

Note, I didn’t put Type 1 Eagle (the 1924 WJ) or Eagle on Sea Scout blue or the much rarer Sea Scout white. The first patch can bring $10,000 – $15,000 alone. The first Eagle on SSwhite can be $1,500 – $5,000 depending upon condition. The thing is, these patches DO turn up from time to time (say once every few years) but not the pieces on the list above, IMHO.

Update: Here are some sleeper, i.e. rarer than folks realize, issues that you CAN find:

• The six ranks on fine twill (used during the later part of WW2 say 1943-1945 when the heavier khaki was used for the military). The lower ranks seem to be harder to find than the higher ones.
• The 2nd Class and Star of the 1980′s series ranks when the badges were bordered and had colored cloth back ground (green on the 2nd Class, blue on the Star) with HOR stitching in the yellow field.
• Air Scout ‘Explorer’ ranks followed by the no words Air Scout ranks.
• The thin knot Eagle from the 1960s (Type 5)

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