For Your Information by Paul Myers in ASTA

 

Senior collector Paul Myers of Goshen, IN was at the recent Calumet Council Memorial Day Trade-o-ree. Paul is a former editor of the Trader magazine in the 1960s. In the 1990s he wrote a regular column for ASTA, the America Scout Traders Association, which merged with NSCA to form ISCA the national group today. At the TOR Paul was handing out a compilation of the articles he wrote for ASTA. It is now contained in a PDF below. It covers over 75 topics of Scouting collectibles. Not in depth necessarily but my guess is that even veteran collectors will learn something knew from going through these pages.

The topics include:

  • Amaquonsippi trail patches
  • US Grant Pilgrimage patches
  • Lincoln Pilgrimage patches
  • Contest medals
  • Henderson Award System
  • Belt Stencils
  • Colored Background Service Stars
  • BSA Anniversary Week
  • Ribbon Pin Bars
  • 100% Duty
  • Standard Church Troop Bars
  • Original Twelve Regions
  • OA Chapter Flaps
  • Early Registration Cards
  • Scout Emergency Units
  • Recruiter Strips
  • Scout Diaries
  • Boy Rangers of America
  • District Badges
  • Region 7 Hoe Down
  • Sweater, swim suit, hat and jacket badges
  • Veteran Emblems
  • Explorer Top Awards
  • Presidents Awards & Quality Unit
  • SeniorScout Titles
  • Civic Service
  • Overseas Travel Badges
  • Service Library
  • WW 1 War Service Medals
  • National Service Camps
  • Boy Scout Bands
  • Tenure in Scout Camp
  • Service Troops
  • Jamboree Staff Positions
  • Jamboree Participation Awards
  • Jamboree Contingent items
  • Jamboree Shoulder Identification
  • 1950 Jamboree Prototypes
  • Variations in Jamboree Patches and Neckerchiefs
  • Jamboree Region Items
  • Strengthen the Arm of Liberty Program
  • Take Me Home Folders
  • Scout Straight Knives
  • Scoutmaster’s Key
  • Cub Scouting
  • First Class Hat Pins
  • Patrol Identification
  • Folding Pocket Knives
  • OA Chapter Badges
  • Scout Rings
  • Pin Back Buttons
  • State Strips
  • Early Camp Honor Societies
  • Philadelphia District Badges
  • Region Standard Camp Badges
  • Philmont Contingent Patches
  • Merit Badges
  • Boycraft Co. Booklets
  • 10 Year Program Award
  • Sea Scout Ships

Boy Scout Memorabilia Information

Special Vintage NJ Pieces Can Bring Special Prices

Posted on October 1st, 2012 in Jamborees by ramore

We just auctioned off an interesting 1937 National Jamboree poster. Why we’re bringing attention to it is that here we have a legitimate, vintage piece of nostalgia that tells a story that got respected by the hobby based upon the price realized. By “vintage nostalgia”, I mean it was not a manufactured rarity like most modern Jamboree items. It was not made to be collected. It was probably used in council offices to promote the jamboree. The pictures show CSE James West, members of the National Executive Board, multi-racial groups of workers helping to build the site and more.

Its now 75 years old. That it has even survived is pretty amazing. It may be one of the only known examples left to survive.

From our description:

National Jamboree 1937 Building Site Poster First one of these we’ve ever seen, really a fantastic piece. Measures about 24×30 inches. In really solid shape, has some wear at the creases but is still all in once piece. Needs to be framed and preserved, Gives all kinds of information about the build

Price realized: $761.

Some close-ups:

What’s it worth? Needlebreak edition

Posted on January 15th, 2012 in Hobby Trends,Jamborees by ramore

That’s a common question we get. And one we just got concerning a 2010 National Jamboree patch. Note that the eagle is missing its left wing. See below.

Here was my response.

Quick answer – probably not much. Its a ‘needlebreak’ unless you can find a whole run of these (that is multiples). Its basically an error that got through quality control or more likely the patch company passed on as much inventory as they could convince a buyer to pay for even if it has a flaw.

These are not like stamps and coins with a process that creates perfect pieces every time and an inspection process that culls errors when they do crop up.

Thus, for patches, such flaws not only don’t command a premium but usually are valued at less than a correct specimen. Again, the exception if their are multiple examples of the same difference and then it becomes a variety and might be quite valuable if collectors want the variety.

At best its a curiousity piece. A piece without any bird would be more desirable from a collector’s perpsective.

 

 

 

Suspicious 2011 WJ Patch Issues Surfacing

Posted on October 23rd, 2011 in Fakes,Jamborees by ramore

Jason Spangler, the Santee Swapper, just sent over a link from his blog about suspicious 2011 WJ patches are that are surfacing. They’re bringing some incredible dollars but I think the points raised, slight but noticeable variations in stitch patterns and borders, makes me think these are $3 bills (which don’t exist). Anyone got more insight or knowledge?

Here’s the link from the Patch Blanket blog – What’s with all the 2011 World Scout Jamboree border colors?

An image from his blog points out differences between what was confirmed to be handed out and what is surfacing. These kinds of differences should NOT exist with today’s embroidery techniques.

ID’ing the 1924 Eagle Patch

Posted on October 8th, 2011 in Jamborees,Merit Badges by ramore

We recently placed a 1924 World Jamboree merit badge sash with the first Eagle patch on it. We’ve been asked how one can identify such a thing. Well several ways but first some history.

Prior to the 1924 World Jamboree the BSA did not sell a merit badge sash. Scouts and Scouters, who could earn merit badges at that time, were left to their own devices. If you only had a few merit badges you would sew them on your shirt sleeve. If you had lots of merit badges, you could keep going up your sleeve. The Scouts DID sell a false sleeve, a snappable sleeve to wrap around your shirt sleeve that one could sew on more merit badges if they did not fit the shirt or if you did not want to wash the badges when you washed the shirt.

We have examples of home made sashes as well. Here’s an example of one that is almost a bandelero that goes over the shoulder and around the waist. Because of the type of badges on the sash, we know its a “teens era” sash.

Also, prior to 1924 there was no patch for the Eagle rank. There was only the medal.

What made the 1924 World Jamboree special, in Chief Scout Executive James West’s perspective, was that participation was limited due to the camp size and that there was going to be Scout competitions between countries. West wanted to win and to visually have the sharpest looking contingent. Thus he had made up an Eagle patch and tailored merit badge sashes so all were consistent.

So how can one tell if you have a 1924 sash or Eagle patch? Here’s a picture of one we just placed. Note on the Eagle patch where the tips of the gray scroll extend into the white oval. Later issues stop at the edge. Then on the sash, the patches were sewn onto the khaki cloth and THEN the border/piping for the sash was sewn. Thus the border covers the edges of the merit badges. These sashes exist as two-wide and three-wide.

Update: Terry’s helped point out a needed correction in my write-up:

Only the first aid merit badge is sewn onto the khaki.  The rest of the merit badges are actually part of the sash.  The merit badge sash was two ply.  The top ply was cut so that the merit badges (sewn together) could be sewn into the ply and become part of the ply. The border was then applied to finish the look all around the sash.

Close-up of how merit badges were sewn into the sash in 1924

 

How have Scout patch prices changed since 1998?

Posted on October 4th, 2011 in Hobby Trends,Insignia,Jamborees,OA by ramore

That was the question I received from collector friend Roger Schustereit of Texas who is helping out another friend that inherited a collection in 1998. As Roger asked:

I am sending this at the request of my friend, XX.  XX is the person who gave me the information on the origin of the 307 R3 I wrote the article on way back when.  It was his home that had the fire that left the patches smoke damaged &, when cleaned, the blue was not color fast.

Anyway, XX is now selling some Scout items on eBay (Akcent).  He wants to be fair to Uncle Sugar for tax purposes.  He inherited the items in 1998 & would like to know a general percentage Scout items have increased or decreased in value since 1998.  I had no idea, but I thought of you immediately.  If you can’t help, no one can.  I know you like a good challenge, so here is a great one.  Will appreciate any help you might offer.

Probably hoping for a simple answer all I could say was no such luck. It depends upon what one has.  Here’s my first response:

But it matters what he has. If he’s got Scout mugs – that’s 100% decline in value. Same for modern handbooks. If he’s got early 1950s OA, good stuff is up, common stuff is down. If its 70’s era OA, its flat to down. If its insignia, its flat to up. If its camp patches, its up to really up. If its CSPs its generally down but red&white community strips are up by a factor of 10 to 20 times higher. …..

Depends upon the area. I know I may be over analyzing but if he’s going to use my observation for tax purposes I need to be able to defend it. There are items that have pulled back from 5 years ago but are still twice what they were in 1998.

I then got into looking at his listings and made these notes:

I just looked at some of the items he has:

1998 value for the N/C slides – $2 – $3 each – now selling for $10 – $25
Philmont patch with segments – he’s asking $300. Fair market if sewn is $85 – $100. Price in 1998 – $150
Region 9 jewelry pieces – in 1998 $5/each – 2011 – $10 – $30 each
1950 Jambo canvas patch – 1998 $25 – 2011 $20
1953 Jambo patch – 1998 $25 – 2011 $20

1950 Jambo emb. patch – 1998 $40 – 2011 $25-$40 so either no change or a decline.

1955 Silber WJ buckle – 1998 $125-$150 – 2011 current bid is $52 may go to $75.

So depending upon what he’s got, his stuff has gone down 40% or gone up 600%. Its not one number. Now this is assuming he wants to be honest with the IRS. And they’re one group I’m honest with.

In reflecting on this further, back in 1998 one could buy community strips for $0.10 to $0.25 each. Now they can bring $3 – $30. And for those who are math challenged that’s a 3000% to 30,000% increase in 13 years from the low end. I’ll have to dig into this deeper for things like First Flaps. More later.

1964 National Jamboree Phone Decal

Posted on September 7th, 2011 in Jamborees by ramore

Packing and pulling last night’s close and even I get amazed at some of the things that come through our hands. One such piece is this:

Its a telephone center/decal from the 1964 National Jamboree with the extension written in on it.

That this has survived for nearly 50 years. Wonderful. Glad it found a new home. The new owner will have a ‘brag’ piece that very few, if anyone else, in the country has. Pretty good buy I figure.

 

Which troops were where at Jambo’s 35 & 37?

Posted on September 3rd, 2011 in Jamborees by ramore

From Kory Louis out of Kansas I got this question:

Roy:

I am trying to figure out which flashes/tabs were assigned to Scouts from the Kansas City area for the 1935 and 1937 National Jamborees.  Do you know of any resources that list the region/section/troop assignments?

So far I have:

1935- VIII, ?, ?
1937- VIII, P, ?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Have a nice weekend,

Kory

PS – I’ve enjoyed your video interviews on YouTube.

I’ve seen parts of such listings for some Regions/Areas (I think I have a Region 7 that covered Michigan kicking around here somewhere in my archives) but I don’t recall seeing a complete listing. Who can help out? I know there are some collectors who have been working on this for quite some time (they are also good at picking up on “recombined” 1937 flashes where the blue region tab does not match the sub-camp/troop red tab. If you have any confirmed info, even if not Region 8, post it here.

 

Shelley on Choby N/C slides

Posted on August 15th, 2011 in Hobby News,Jamborees,Podcasts by ramore

At the recent Calutmet TOR we hooked up with ISCA OA column editor Bruce Shelley. Bruce is best known in the hobby for his articles, along with co-author Dave Minnihan, on Order of the Arrow issues and trends. But as we blogged previously many of us have side collections that interest us just as much. For Bruce it is the woodcarver Ed Choby hand carved slides.

Here’s our video interview with Bruce. As background, Ed Choby was one of a small group of expert wood carvers that produced slides based to ‘Slides of the Month’ in Boy’s Life for others. His name appears on many slides. I consider these slides, and many of the Boy Scout slides, as excellent examples of America Folk Art.

If it does not pop-up, you can go to YouTube here.

 

Lower Rio Grande Council Flag

Posted on May 23rd, 2011 in Jamborees,Uncategorized by ramore

Just received an interesting pic. Its a 1953 National Jamboree flag from a council I’ve not seen before. See Lower Rio Grande Valley Council in the title. This council name does exist although it was listed as going out in 1947. Other than this flag I’ve not seen anything with this name on it. Anyone have anything?

 


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