Scouting Service at 1964 NY World’s Fair

Posted on June 18th, 2012 in BSA Info,Camps,General Commentary on Life,Legacy Interviews by ramore

We recently received some patches from a Scouter out of New York. While asking about his involvements, an Eagle Scout and 1960 National Jamboree participant, he mentioned he served on the Boy Scout Service Corps for the 1964 New York World’s Fair.


Less and less we come across participants let alone staff members from the World’s Fair so I asked him about his remembrances. Here’s what he had to say (nice piece of personal history about his guiding Vice President Nixon btw):

Working the fair was a great experience. I think I worked a week or two mainly weekends and holidays (it was during the school year) before they rotated in other than local scouts to man the pavilion over the summer. Our principle jobs were to demonstrate scouting skills (I remember demonstrating a lot of first aid), give directions, help with lostchildren, and escort dignitaries. I do remember taking the then King of Burundi around and the then former Vice-President Richard Nixon, whose foot I stepped on. I was kidded for years about that.

I went to the 1960 National Jamboree,  went to Philmont in 1962, worked the Scouting pavilion at the 1964 World’s Fair, and I was an Order of the Arrow member (Horicon 246). I grew up in  southern New York State, Washington Irving Council, and was a  counselor at their Camp Read. I was later active in the explorer  program.  I always felt that scouting was tougher than the   peacetime Army.

Interview with Lodge 179 Founding Member Hugh Mauldin

Posted on August 15th, 2011 in Legacy Interviews,OA by ramore

With the aid of my more video savvy nephews we’re getting caught up on some video’s we’ve taken. This one is with Hugh Mauldin from the 2009 NOAC. Hugh is a founding member of Alibamu Lodge 179 headquartered in Montgomery, AL. Hugh earned his Eagle rank in 1941. The video’s a little long but THIS is our history. Scouting exists because of Hugh and others like him before him. If it is to exist in the future, it will be up to us to carry on the legacy of service to the youth of our community.

Why some Scout patches keep going up in price.

Posted on June 13th, 2011 in Hobby Trends,Legacy Interviews,OA by ramore

I write articles for the International Scout Collectors’ Association, ISCA, journal on trends in the hobby. In thinking about an upcoming article and reviewing market conditions in different areas of the hobby prices are holding up or appreciating in some areas but not others. A common thread between the two, in my opinion, is where there has been and continue to be active collecting guides for active areas of the Scout patches.

One of my current thoughts is about major impacts on our hobby that are standing the test of time. One of those is the focus on first flaps. I recently posed some questions to one of the principle authors, Dr. Jeff Morley of California, about the first book on first flaps. When did you begin this focus? Why? What other things when  doing the research that the hobby should know or remember?

Dr. Morley responded:

Hi Roy,
I started collecting first flaps in earnest in the mid 1980’s right after I
completed Green Book II. The information was incomplete and sometimes vague
as there was no picture guide and all we had to go on was a listing in the
Arapaho guide that, as you remember, was fairly good but lacked the
detailed information to make a positive ID on many of the flaps.

After the 1988 NOAC, I had reached a “wall” in my first flap collection. I
was down to about 20 needs (as far as I knew from the info that was
available at the time). So I made a decision to invest in placing ads in
local papers soliciting the first flaps that I still needed. I was not the
first collector to pursue this approach as Gene Berman had been placing
some very limited ads in communities where he was looking for specific
things (like the 214x) but he had never gone after first flaps. At the
time, my effort were very successful and produced some unexpected results.
First and foremost, by 1989, I had located and acquired all 20 of my
remaining needs, the last being the 311 Koo Ben Sho. However, in the
process, I also got a lot of new information from the people that were
contacting me, much of which was either new info or contradicted the
prevailing thoughts at the time of what constituted the “first flap”. The
former arrowmen that I came in contact with were simply members form the
1950’s that had received the flap, they were not leaders, arrowmen that had
continued on in the program or collectors. They were just your average Joe
that received a flap and knew the one or two years they were in scouts and
in the OA.Their info was very factual and not influenced by “folklore” that
had developed in the hobby by the 1980’s. I still have all of my research
correspondence from the late 1980’s with the orignal arrowman rom the
1930’s-50’s that contacted me with information.

My close friend and patch/OA historian extraordinair, Bill Topkis became
very interested in the first flaps in the late 1980’s and by 1990, was
helping with the patch research and information. The original difficulty
ratings for first flaps was developed by both Bill and I as a result of us
both determining what were our last fast flap needs and comparing our
independent collection lists.

So it turned out there were some new discoveries of what the first the
first flap from a lodge was and in particular, which variety was the
“technically correct” first flap. The hobby started to see OA collecting
more in terms of “varieties” in the late 1980’s, I believe largely as a
result of Green Book II (published in 1985) which began cataloging
California OA patches as issues and varieties. Also, what started to become
clearer as time went on was that in some cases (like lodge 96, 146, 189,
237 and others), the first flap issued by a lodge was for an event.
Previously, event patches were not considered actual lodge issues and were
not listed anywhere. But the truth was, like it or not, they were the first
flap shaped patch issued by that lodge and they were the first flap worn on
the uniform from those lodges.

As a result of these efforts, Bill, our friend and past Malibu Lodge 566
chief ,Tom Gould and I talked about how great it would be to publish all
the information we had acquired on first flaps and so in 1991 we started on
the original book. After it was published in 1992, the book became very
popular and at times, controversial. In some cases, local folklore in a
particular lodge considered their first flap to be different from what we
listed. That promoted vigorous discussion and more research. The results
improved the listing. Sometimes Bill and I were right and the folklore was
corrected. Other times, we had a few of the first flaps listed incorrectly
and we were corrected.

The final evolution in the first flap project developed when Dave Thomas
asked if he could collaborate with us to republish First Flaps in a large
glossy color book. Dave was instrumental in taking the information to the
next level and I believe that First Flaps in Color is now considered in the
Scout Collecting hobby as a classic and one of the seminal books in patch
collecting along with the Wabiningo Lodge Emblem handbook, Arapaho, Blue
Book and others.

A sad top ten picture

Posted on June 29th, 2010 in General Commentary on Life,Legacy Interviews by ramore

There is a web site that creates and posts top ten lists across numerous topics. Destry just sent me one of the top 10 famous final photographs. Now we don’t typically blog about other web-sites and this one does not on first glance seem relevant to our blog about Boy Scouts and collecting but look at #7 – Jeffrey Miller – one of the students National Guards killed at Kent State University in 1970. Its a Pulitzer Prize winning picture. For our younger collectors, they may not be connected to the events but for those of us with more age this event and this picture captured a traumatic era in the USA.

Now for the connection to Scouting. Jeff was an Eagle Scout. He was collector Bernie Miller’s son.

Remembrances of Dad

Posted on December 14th, 2009 in Legacy Interviews by ramore

My dad, Keith Albert More, passed way on December 7th, 2009. This past week I’ve said more than once that dieing is part of living but that doesn’t make it any easier. His obituary is here.

The eulogy I gave on Friday is below. This covers more than Scouting but it helps, I believe, to give a flavor to his background. He’ll certainly be missed.

Dad came to Michigan to work on his PhD. His research involved proving what at the time was a recent theory by Watson and Crick that DNA was a double-helix. While sorting fruit-flies by the color of their eyes during the day he seemed to have developed a certain social reputation on campus at night. He set that aside as life intervened, my mom’s and then me, that lead to his being one of the first dozen or so members of the new Bendix Aerospace Systems Division here in Ann Arbor. He seemed to really enjoy nuclear physics and was attracted to it. The Division eventually grew to employing over 1,000 people.

It was a little different growing up in a home where your dad couldn’t talk about his work because it was classified. During most of his career he carried “top secret” clearance or higher. When he could talk about his work it was about mass spectrometers, forward looking infrared radar or the use of inverse Fourier transforms in interferometry. Not light stuff.

His work did provide us with some interesting experiences such as directly witnessing the Apollo 11 launch. Somewhere in dad’s stuff he was presented with one of the Pioneer Plaques designed by Carl Sagan for dad’s work on the Pioneer 10 spacecraft the first man-made item designed to leave our solar system. My brothers and I are proud to have a dad who designed an experiment placed on the moon.

Dad was a do-er. My brothers and I learned construction at dad’s side as he built our house. Whether it was facing the sandstone that reminded him of his Kansas home, pouring concrete, laying brick or planting hundreds of seedling pines obtained from the DNR. Often to the classical music of WJR’s Karl Haas Adventures in Good Music. As a side note, the first and only time dad spanked me was when I was 5. He came home and found me pushing his classical records across our cement floor. I don’t remember the spanking but I never pushed another record across the floor and I still enjoy classical music.

As he was building our home US-23 was being developed. The construction crew cleared a stand of walnut trees. Dad wanted to use some for stairs in the house. The crew would only sell him all of the trees. Since it was only $100 he took them all. Even though we had solid walnut stairs and landings, solid walnut book shelves, and did the library in solid walnut planks there was still walnut lumber left over when he sold the house 22 years later.

Tod remembers the story of the electrical inspector telling dad that dad’s grounding of every outlet was a waste of wire. It wasn’t. Dad was just 20 years ahead of the inspector and what is standard today. My dad did not back off of tasks even if they were big or hard so long as they were right.

Dad had a passion for sailing. We’re not sure how he got the passion in Kansas but he did. While in high school he built his first boat with a friend in the family’s stone barn. It went well until they realized it wouldn’t fit through the door. Somehow they did get it out and took it to Wichita to sail. When he came to Michigan he got a sailboat. He had to turn over his boat after I came along but he did design our in-ground garage to be large enough to be able to build a 44-foot boat and get it out.

My brothers and I remember his involvement in Scouting. Actually I got involved in Scouting through my friend Bruce. It wasn’t something my dad pushed on us. I found out he was an Eagle Scout long after I had joined. Jeff pointed out one of the special things about our dad was the time he would give to take us on camp-outs and trips. Scouts require at least two-deep adult leadership on outings but often it was hard to find enough dads to be able to take us on campouts. I remember my dad in his early 40’s ‘recruited’ my Uncle Tom and the two of them took the older Scouts of the troop on an 80 mile, week-long backpacking trip along the Appalachian Trail in the Smoky Mountains.

The next year the Scouts decided we wanted to do a week-long canoe trek along the Au Sable river. Rather than rent or buy canoes, dad researched how to make our own canoes. He located canoe plans from the Michigan Canoe Racing Association. He cut the templates of the optimized, hydrodynamic design. To make these canoes meant ripping hundreds of 20 foot strips of ¼” inch redwood that we then glued together. Somewhere in the Ann Arbor News archives is a picture of Bruce and me in our uniforms explaining to visitors at a Scout-o-rama how we made these canoes. People were fascinated and didn’t know that you could make your own canoes.

Dad instilled in us a sense of exploration. We traveled to most of the fifty states whether for work or pleasure. He developed in us an appreciation of wine with most dinners. I remember going with him to Dr. Meadow’s garage and the Vins de France group that would direct import wine for the club in order to save some money on great wine.

Basically as soon as Jeff and I could handle cards we were ‘recruited’ to be a foursome for bridge with my mom and dad. Often at family gatherings it was ‘Hi. How are you? Where are the cards?”

While talking with my aunts and uncles in the past few days I found out things about my dad I never knew. My aunt told me that after dad took the Naval Reserve exam my grandmother got a call from Washington. They told her that Dad had gotten the highest score ever and they were interested in what he was going to study in college.

He loved two women in his life. My mom who died at what I now realize is the incredibly young age of 52 and Flora. He told me that after having a great relationship with my mom he sought another and found it with Flora. Blending families sometimes isn’t easy but we did. I am thankful for the love and happiness that Flora brought to him these past twenty years.

Dad was a simple man and a complex man.

He was a child of the depression who taught his sons the value of thrift.

He was a modest man of the mind who loved life and a good apple pie. Actually any apple pie. And I recently found out his brother George’s humus and sister Mary’s pita chips.

He infected my brothers and me with optimism.

Today there is another angel in heaven. Hoist the sail. Open the wine and get out the cards.

A story about Trey

Posted on June 26th, 2009 in BSA Info,General Commentary on Life,Legacy Interviews by ramore

I am a member of one of the local Rotary International clubs. Rotary is one of the civic service clubs. It started in Chicago a hundred years ago. It has over 32,000 clubs and 1.2 million members. Its motto is “Service above self” which I can relate to as well as its “Four-way Test” that is a great foundation for business, family and life.

Rotary clubs continue to do a lot for youth and Scouting in particular. Most states have or have had a Camp Rotary in them.

The organization publishes a monthly magazine. Since not everyone is in Rotary I thought I’d share an article from a Rotarian about his son.

Bill Gates, Jr. or Trey from Rotary International maazine

Showing up for Life

…When Trey was a Cub Scout, his troup earned the money they needed to support their activities by seling raw nuts for the holidays. Groups within the pack competed against each other to see who could raise the most money. So Trey spent countless hours going door to door soliciting orders for nuts.

On evenings and weekends, I went with him, driving to different neighborhoods and waiting in the car while he went from house to house.

It turns out that way back then Trey was recording his impresions on such things as what it’s like to go knocking on doors trying to sell a product, what factors influence buying decisions, and to what degree finding the right market for your product influences your overall success. …

Now as the late Paul Harvey would say, “And now for the rest of the story.”

This article was written by a Rotarian about his son. The dad’s name is Bill Gates, Sr. father of Bill Gates, Jr. Founder and former Chairmen of Microsoft Corporation.

Some Timely Reminders from GSTC DCD for Ambassador Ron Weiser

Posted on December 11th, 2008 in BSA Info,General Commentary on Life,Legacy Interviews by ramore

Last night I participated in a local Scout recognition dinner for former Ambassador Ron Weiser. One of the presenters was Michigan Supreme Court Chief Justice Clifford W. Taylor. His remarks, I think, are particularly important not just about our honoree but about the need for Scouting in this country. I asked him if I could share with you and he gladly said yes.

Remarks of Chief Justice Clifford W. Taylor to the Great Sauk Trail Council Boy Scouts of America 14th Annual Washtenaw County Distinguished Citizen of the Year Award Recipient Ambassador Ron Weiser

Good evening.  It’s a great personal pleasure to join all of you this evening in honoring Ron Weiser.  The expression “patriot” has fallen out of fashion, largely because of the media’s and entertainment industry’s repeated efforts over the decades to portray patriots and patriotism as laughable at best, sinister at worst.  But I persist in thinking of Ron and people like him as “patriots”;  that is, “great Americans.”  The term will always fit men and women who, like Ron, have given unstintingly of their best to this country.

You all know Ron’s record:  a great business success in Michigan, ambassador to the Slovak Republic under President Bush; board member of numerous companies and nonprofits; champion of education and the arts.  He has received the Slovak Republic’s White Double Cross, the highest honor that government can bestow on a non-Slovak, and the Woodrow Wilson Award for Public Service, to name but two of his many honors.  We rightly laud Ron for his accomplishments tonight, for all his contributions to this community, this state, our country.  However, I have particular reason to have affection for him.  He has personally befriended me in my various campaigns for the Supreme Court and through those efforts I have gotten to know his wonderful character and dedication.  He is one of the great assets in my life.  I hold him in the highest esteem  Yet, I would like to look past this moment, reflect a bit on Scouting’s current situation and from that consider what all this means as to this country producing men like Ron in the future.

This is no light question.  Take, for example, the depressing findings of the Josephson Institute for Youth Ethics, which has been surveying the ethics of American youth since 1998.  The 2008 report, based on a survey of nearly 30,000 high school students across the United States, found that 30 percent admitted stealing from a store within the past year.  Twenty-three percent said they stole something from a parent or other relative within the same time frame.  Forty-two percent admitted to lying to save money; 83 percent admitted to lying to parents about something significant.  Sixty-four percent reported cheating on a test during the past year, with 38 percent doing so two or more times.

With that being the case, you’d think that a youth organization that seeks to instill such values as trustworthiness would be a much-needed remedy for the cultural and ethical vacuum in which so many young people grow up.  At least you would not expect such an organization to be under attack.  And yet, that’s precisely what’s going on with the Boy Scouts.  As the journalist and author William Tucker, a former Scoutmaster himself, pointed out in an article for the National Review, entitled “Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Persecuted,” the Boy Scouts have, in his words, “been dragged onto the front lines of the culture wars.”  Who knew that the thrifty, brave, clean and reverent could become “controversial,” which is media-speak for “unpopular with the left”?  Who would have imagined that an institution that urges its members to be trustworthy, loyal, friendly and courteous would be under assault by the American Civil Liberties Union?  And what parents, until about 20 years ago, could have forseen that organization dedicated to teaching their sons kindness, obedience, cheerfulness and thrift would be engaged in a struggle to not be whipped from the public square?

If you doubt that there’s a concerted effort going on to either destroy or remake the Scouts to suit the left’s agenda, consider this.  You may recall how in 2000 the U.S. Supreme Court, in Boy Scouts of America v Dale, ruled that the Scouts’ First Amendment right of free association meant that they could keep homosexuals from serving as Scoutmasters.  Since then, the ACLU and its allies have used the Scouts’ position in that lawsuit to argue that the Scouts are a kind of church or religion, and hence are not entitled to public benefits such as the use of public schools, military facilities, and the like.

The ACLU has used the religious organization argument to push Scout councils out of property that they have leased from public entities.  Take, for example, the ACLU suit against the city of San Diego over property that the Scouts leased from the city, and had developed into parks and run for decades.  The Scouts spent millions of their own money developing these properties, with both parks being open to the public.  But the ACLU filed suit, arguing that the leases violated the Establishment clause because the Scouts were a religious organization.  Similarly, in Philadelphia, the Scouts have leased a half-acre property from the city for $1 per year since 1928, and have built a 7,500-square-foot headquarters at their own expense.  The Philadelphia city council first tried to evict the Scouts from this property and then demanded $200,000 a year in rent; litigation is still pending.           

Other forms of support are at risk as well.  In 2004, the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear a Boy Scout appeal of a Connecticut decision to target the Scouts for exclusion from a list of 900 charities that were part of a state worker voluntary giving plan.  Under the pressure from gay rights advocates, the United Way has stopped supporting the Scouts in dozens of cities.

In short, we are in the situation that a person my age surely could have never thought would develop:  the Scouts’ very existence may well be seen increasingly as antagonistic to our nation’s aspirations.

Should this eventuate, the primary victims would be the nation’s boys, particularly those from poor families because the urban programs of the Scouts, the ones that are the most needed, are the hardest hit when the Scouts lose public support.  Yet, to speak of this in financial terms misses the point:  what price tag can we put on millions of boys learning discipline, responsibility, unselfishness?  What’s the worth of a stable male role model to a boy who has none?  What price character?

The Scouts are, make no mistake embroiled in a battle of epic proportions.  Their opponents seek to either destroy them or cow the Scouts into becoming an organization that satisfies its critics’ secularist agendas.  The relevance of a dinner such as this one is to make us pause to consider that it is not beyond us to stand up and salute the Boy Scouts unashamedly.  And, while doing so, to also salute this fine man who has allowed us to recognize him this evening, all in the greater service of an America where the values of the Boy Scout Oath are not murmured softly by persons of character but are proudly proclaimed to be the very essence of this country that Lincoln so well described as the last best hope for mankind.           

Thank you, Ron, for the life you have led and the model you have provided.  With countless events such as this, across America honoring prominent citizens in their communities, and the many Scouting events in our communities across our land in this and the years to come, we can be hopeful that the seeds will continue to be planted so that men of your caliber will arise.  This great institution that has served our nation so well for a century is a national treasure.  It is my hope that it will continue to prosper and assist in giving meaning to the lives of boys who will, as men, be patriots just as Ron Weiser  is.

Guidelines for Conducting a Scouting Legacy Interview

Posted on August 15th, 2007 in Legacy Interviews by Roy

Since we started posting on-line video legacy interviews of Scouts and Scouters we have received several requests on how others could conduct an interview and submit them to our website.

The following are some guidelines and suggestions. Every interview should include the first three items. The other items are suggestions. No two interviews will be the same as each has their own story to tell. Let the interviews go where they go. A final point – Conduct the interview in such a fashion that you would be interested in wanting to watch it and felt it worthwhile after watching it.

Enjoy. Please pass on any suggestions you might have. At this point we do not have direct upload so please send a DVD to the above address and we will process from there.

PDF Guidlines for Conducting a Scout Legacy Interview



Legacy Interview – Conference Vice Chief Jared Davis

Posted on August 9th, 2007 in Legacy Interviews,NOACs,Podcasts by Roy

Jared’s another one of the empressive young men I worked with at the 2007 National OA Conservation and Leadership Summit (NCLS). Jared’s an Eagle Scout and Silver Award recipient. He also served as Conference Vice Chief at the 2004 National Order of the Arrow Conference (NOAC). Jared’s from National Capital Area Council in Washington, D.C. and Amangamek Wipit Lodge 470.

I asked Jared to share some of his thoughts on the impact of Scouting on youth and what it was like to be in charge of a 100+ person staff serving over 7,000 NOAC attendees.

Interview with Summit Vice Chief Jake Wellman

Posted on August 7th, 2007 in Legacy Interviews,OA,Podcasts by Roy

I’ve conducted legacy interviews with some long-term Scouters but realized that we can also learn much from our younger members as they create their own legacy. Here is the first of my ‘youth’ legacy interviews.

I recently served on staff of the 2007 National OA Conservation and Leadership Summit held at Indiana University. The OA membership includes some of our best and brightest young men in the country. I had the pleasure of serving under Summit Vice Chief (SVC) Jake Wellman of Yah-tah-hey-si-kess lodge 66 out of Albuquerque, New Mexico.

Jake shared some of his Scouting background both in Ini-to lodge 324 in Georgia and lodge 66 as well as his experiences serving on a National Leadership Seminar staff in Far East Council in Tokyo, Japan. I am struck by the incredible opportunities Scouting offers to young men and the impact that Scouting can have on developing tomorrow’s leaders. Even at his young age Jake got to see and experience another country and US Scouts living overseas.

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