Camp Woronoak Award Patch & Card

Posted on May 28th, 2012 in Camps,OA by ramore

Destry just picked up on this item that came through eBay.

This is from Camp Woronoak from Hampden Council (MA). The patch has caused some controversy as it was also pictured in the 1948 OA Handbook as an OA issue for lodge 83. (Its also been shown, as it was in the eBay listing with the arrow point down and the “W” becoming an “M”.)

Well this listing clears up that (1) it is NOT an OA patch and (2) that it is a camp award patch as stated on the accompanying card:

Fun Finds Baluga 538

Posted on January 9th, 2012 in OA,RWS by ramore

For good and bad, eBay is our daily sell-o-ree. eBay keeps forcing collectibles, not just Scout patches, into the same process as commodity, off-the-shelf products. Still, we put up with it for the occaisional find. For me it was recently picking up a variety of the Clark Air Base red and white strip made-in-theater (MIT, which means was made locally in an overseas location.)

In the lot the seller pictured some of the Scout’s membership cards. Previously I wrote about fun side collections that may not cost much, nor be worth much, but are any way fun. The card shown was a Hinode Goya 498 (consistent with the Air Base). The picture showed multiple cards but they were covered up. When I received them one of the cards was a Baluga 538 membership card. Although rarer than the flap it certainly is not as valuable (and no, don’t suggest that I could make my collection by getting a bunch of blanks and writing names in – not kosher and not confirmable.)

Ghost Patches Are A Pain

Posted on January 3rd, 2012 in Hobby Trends,OA by ramore

Needing to vent here. I would have thought these would have gone out of fashion. Maybe they have but we deal with vintage patches. But ghost patches are a real pain for my getting older eyes. IFFFF you read closely you can read that is is from Amangamek Wipit 470 but white on white does not make it easy. Why’d we ever get into this in the first place? (Actually, the answer to this question is that Mike Welsh of Welsh Industries came up with a patch marketing idea with the birth of a white buffalo in August, 1994 which has some symbolic significance to certain native American tribes.)

History on Narraticong Lodge 9

Posted on December 14th, 2011 in OA by ramore

I’ve recently been trading e-mails with an early lodge chief from Narraticong Lodge 9 out of New Jersey. This lodge was the result of the merger of Cowaw 9 and Sakawawin 287 in 1969.

My e-mail pen pal was a lodge chief and eventual Area chief. He put me onto a nice history web-site for Narraticong (such as why their totem was a mosquito).
http://www.cnjc-bsa.org/lodges/naricong/index.htm

What is nice about the new Blue Book is that these kind of pages can be posted into the lodge listings. Growing and sharing this kind of information and history makes our collections more meaningful, in my opinion.

OA Pressuring GNYC Lodges to Merge?

Posted on November 9th, 2011 in BSA Info,Hobby News,OA by ramore

Right now this is in the rumor mill but the OA National Committee is following through on its policy one charter – one lodge. The biggest outlier in this is Greater New York Councils which is technically one council but each of the burroughs operate with a lot of autonomy and they each have their own lodge several being some of the oldest in the country (e.g., Ranachaqua 4 and Shu-shu-gah 24). Anyone have any more knowledge about this situation either to confirm or refute?

 

IDing the True Pokagon First Flap

Posted on October 23rd, 2011 in OA by ramore

Got into a discussion with Pokagon 110 alumnus Jim Scherbarth of Illinois about Pokagon’s first flap. We both agreed that most folks get it wrong and as a result don’t have the true first flap. This came up because we were both at the Columbus TOR where someone had the wrong Pokagon cataloged as the S1. Then again later this week someone asked for an offer on a collection. In it was supposedly a Pokagon S1 but when looking at the picture, it was not.

Here’s a picture of what is commonly thought to be the S1 but is NOT!!!

Digging deeper I went to OAimages.com. What’s on there today is the wrong patch. I went to the book First Flaps in Color. The one pictured there is wrong. Finally I had to get to the first edition of First Flaps by Morley, Topkis & Gould to get a picture of the correct one. Arapahoe 2’s completely mixed up in their sequencing of the issues but this was being done just on Dave Leubitz’s recollection.

What Jim has pointed out to me over the years is that the true S1 first flap is just like the Chief’s issue, S2, but with red arrow. Unfortunately that does not help most folks have never seen the Chief’s issue. Its one of the rarest patches in the hobby.

Here’s the S2 chief’s issue:

Now here’s a picture of the true Pokagon first flap:

and a close-up of the tail:

 

How have Scout patch prices changed since 1998?

Posted on October 4th, 2011 in Hobby Trends,Insignia,Jamborees,OA by ramore

That was the question I received from collector friend Roger Schustereit of Texas who is helping out another friend that inherited a collection in 1998. As Roger asked:

I am sending this at the request of my friend, XX.  XX is the person who gave me the information on the origin of the 307 R3 I wrote the article on way back when.  It was his home that had the fire that left the patches smoke damaged &, when cleaned, the blue was not color fast.

Anyway, XX is now selling some Scout items on eBay (Akcent).  He wants to be fair to Uncle Sugar for tax purposes.  He inherited the items in 1998 & would like to know a general percentage Scout items have increased or decreased in value since 1998.  I had no idea, but I thought of you immediately.  If you can’t help, no one can.  I know you like a good challenge, so here is a great one.  Will appreciate any help you might offer.

Probably hoping for a simple answer all I could say was no such luck. It depends upon what one has.  Here’s my first response:

But it matters what he has. If he’s got Scout mugs – that’s 100% decline in value. Same for modern handbooks. If he’s got early 1950s OA, good stuff is up, common stuff is down. If its 70’s era OA, its flat to down. If its insignia, its flat to up. If its camp patches, its up to really up. If its CSPs its generally down but red&white community strips are up by a factor of 10 to 20 times higher. …..

Depends upon the area. I know I may be over analyzing but if he’s going to use my observation for tax purposes I need to be able to defend it. There are items that have pulled back from 5 years ago but are still twice what they were in 1998.

I then got into looking at his listings and made these notes:

I just looked at some of the items he has:

1998 value for the N/C slides – $2 – $3 each – now selling for $10 – $25
Philmont patch with segments – he’s asking $300. Fair market if sewn is $85 – $100. Price in 1998 – $150
Region 9 jewelry pieces – in 1998 $5/each – 2011 – $10 – $30 each
1950 Jambo canvas patch – 1998 $25 – 2011 $20
1953 Jambo patch – 1998 $25 – 2011 $20

1950 Jambo emb. patch – 1998 $40 – 2011 $25-$40 so either no change or a decline.

1955 Silber WJ buckle – 1998 $125-$150 – 2011 current bid is $52 may go to $75.

So depending upon what he’s got, his stuff has gone down 40% or gone up 600%. Its not one number. Now this is assuming he wants to be honest with the IRS. And they’re one group I’m honest with.

In reflecting on this further, back in 1998 one could buy community strips for $0.10 to $0.25 each. Now they can bring $3 – $30. And for those who are math challenged that’s a 3000% to 30,000% increase in 13 years from the low end. I’ll have to dig into this deeper for things like First Flaps. More later.

What’s the ‘short’ story from VA Lodge 333?

Posted on September 9th, 2011 in OA by ramore

In the theme of wild things lodges have done, I’d like to know the history of the following item that came in:

Wicomico Chapter has some STRANGE ways of showing their heritage…..

Addendum: The editors of OA Blue Book have decided to NOT catalog articles of clothing such as hats, t-shirts, AND underpants (although if there are patches on such then those will be included – the patch that is). Thank God!

Interview with Lodge 179 Founding Member Hugh Mauldin

Posted on August 15th, 2011 in Legacy Interviews,OA by ramore

With the aid of my more video savvy nephews we’re getting caught up on some video’s we’ve taken. This one is with Hugh Mauldin from the 2009 NOAC. Hugh is a founding member of Alibamu Lodge 179 headquartered in Montgomery, AL. Hugh earned his Eagle rank in 1941. The video’s a little long but THIS is our history. Scouting exists because of Hugh and others like him before him. If it is to exist in the future, it will be up to us to carry on the legacy of service to the youth of our community.

Why some Scout patches keep going up in price.

Posted on June 13th, 2011 in Hobby Trends,Legacy Interviews,OA by ramore

I write articles for the International Scout Collectors’ Association, ISCA, journal on trends in the hobby. In thinking about an upcoming article and reviewing market conditions in different areas of the hobby prices are holding up or appreciating in some areas but not others. A common thread between the two, in my opinion, is where there has been and continue to be active collecting guides for active areas of the Scout patches.

One of my current thoughts is about major impacts on our hobby that are standing the test of time. One of those is the focus on first flaps. I recently posed some questions to one of the principle authors, Dr. Jeff Morley of California, about the first book on first flaps. When did you begin this focus? Why? What other things when  doing the research that the hobby should know or remember?

Dr. Morley responded:

Hi Roy,
I started collecting first flaps in earnest in the mid 1980’s right after I
completed Green Book II. The information was incomplete and sometimes vague
as there was no picture guide and all we had to go on was a listing in the
Arapaho guide that, as you remember, was fairly good but lacked the
detailed information to make a positive ID on many of the flaps.

After the 1988 NOAC, I had reached a “wall” in my first flap collection. I
was down to about 20 needs (as far as I knew from the info that was
available at the time). So I made a decision to invest in placing ads in
local papers soliciting the first flaps that I still needed. I was not the
first collector to pursue this approach as Gene Berman had been placing
some very limited ads in communities where he was looking for specific
things (like the 214x) but he had never gone after first flaps. At the
time, my effort were very successful and produced some unexpected results.
First and foremost, by 1989, I had located and acquired all 20 of my
remaining needs, the last being the 311 Koo Ben Sho. However, in the
process, I also got a lot of new information from the people that were
contacting me, much of which was either new info or contradicted the
prevailing thoughts at the time of what constituted the “first flap”. The
former arrowmen that I came in contact with were simply members form the
1950’s that had received the flap, they were not leaders, arrowmen that had
continued on in the program or collectors. They were just your average Joe
that received a flap and knew the one or two years they were in scouts and
in the OA.Their info was very factual and not influenced by “folklore” that
had developed in the hobby by the 1980’s. I still have all of my research
correspondence from the late 1980’s with the orignal arrowman rom the
1930’s-50’s that contacted me with information.

My close friend and patch/OA historian extraordinair, Bill Topkis became
very interested in the first flaps in the late 1980’s and by 1990, was
helping with the patch research and information. The original difficulty
ratings for first flaps was developed by both Bill and I as a result of us
both determining what were our last fast flap needs and comparing our
independent collection lists.

So it turned out there were some new discoveries of what the first the
first flap from a lodge was and in particular, which variety was the
“technically correct” first flap. The hobby started to see OA collecting
more in terms of “varieties” in the late 1980’s, I believe largely as a
result of Green Book II (published in 1985) which began cataloging
California OA patches as issues and varieties. Also, what started to become
clearer as time went on was that in some cases (like lodge 96, 146, 189,
237 and others), the first flap issued by a lodge was for an event.
Previously, event patches were not considered actual lodge issues and were
not listed anywhere. But the truth was, like it or not, they were the first
flap shaped patch issued by that lodge and they were the first flap worn on
the uniform from those lodges.

As a result of these efforts, Bill, our friend and past Malibu Lodge 566
chief ,Tom Gould and I talked about how great it would be to publish all
the information we had acquired on first flaps and so in 1991 we started on
the original book. After it was published in 1992, the book became very
popular and at times, controversial. In some cases, local folklore in a
particular lodge considered their first flap to be different from what we
listed. That promoted vigorous discussion and more research. The results
improved the listing. Sometimes Bill and I were right and the folklore was
corrected. Other times, we had a few of the first flaps listed incorrectly
and we were corrected.

The final evolution in the first flap project developed when Dave Thomas
asked if he could collaborate with us to republish First Flaps in a large
glossy color book. Dave was instrumental in taking the information to the
next level and I believe that First Flaps in Color is now considered in the
Scout Collecting hobby as a classic and one of the seminal books in patch
collecting along with the Wabiningo Lodge Emblem handbook, Arapaho, Blue
Book and others.


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