Just in from Regional Blue Book Editor Dave Pede. We’ll try to get some pictures of the patches. Just another problem we’re having in our hobby.

From Dave:

L’rs, It has come to my attention that there is a new round of fakes coming out into the collecting world sourcing from Midwest Swiss Embroidery in Chicago. These are being pushed as overruns. Many of these starting to pop up, too many to be legit. They appear to be being reordered off of the original loom tapes. I am not sure who has access to them, but what I am sure is that most of the ones I have seen from Illinois lodges are NOT the correct issue to be an ‘overrun’. They are close, but not quite right. Two specific examples are a 157S9 from Leekwinai and 246 S0.5 from Pachsegink. The 157 issue was a single order placed back in the late 80’s and is a relatively scarce issue. The 246 was issued in 1994 as the Charter member flap, one per charter member. There are a few distinctions that give these away. Flat rolled border. Very thin clear plastic back. Horizontal marks in the plastic back. Color slightly wrong. I have seen others from different lodges that could be in question, 389, 567 OBV set, etc. But I will let the other Bluebook editors make the determination of legitimacy. As for the Illinois lodges I will be marking these as Z’s.

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As Destry just pointed out – this is a fake of a fake. Now this is getting ridiculous. This showed up on eBay (where else – its the venue of choice for fakes.)

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Heard from Mitch Reis today. Thought it worth saving for posterity. Mitch has done some very nice books on Scouting insignia so he knows his stuff.

Hi Roy

I just stumbled on your web log and loved reading through it.

I see you have pictures of a Fake Tenderfoot Achievement Patch.

Can I add the picture to the fake insignia section on my website?

Mitch Reis’ web site on BSA Fakes click here

I have a zero tolerance for fakes and want to spread the word wherever I can.

Mitch

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It seems like this is becoming the fake reporting blog. Here’s today’s featured un-described fake – a Tenderfoot Achievement patch.

Ok, where to start. Maybe I should play this as ‘find the mistakes in this picture’ game. Being cut-edge is not the give away although the original issue is on square kahki people did cut these down when they put them on their uniform.

Mistakes – CD with polyester thread – these came out in the era of loom embroidery and mostly were of silk thread or some later ones may have had cotton. They did not have a creslon back. The embroidery was more distinct and detailed. The color of the twill was brown khaki, not green. There weren’t that many stars on the eagle’s shield. There are more, such as the design of the eagle, but they are not as easy to pick-up.

Unfortunately one of our customers got burned thinking they were getting a bargain. If they had only contacted us, we would have told them.

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It appears that another seller has made up and is selling fake patches.

They’re listed as such. I don’t know what it does for values for the real ones but probably not good. What will be interesting is when buyers of these go to sell their collections though. Because these are not real, dealers will put a very low value on them as they are too speculative. Their sell through rate, the percent that sell, is low so what it is really doing is transferring a lot of collector money to eBay in fees the seller pays to list but not sell. Still, I assume they’re making a profit or they wouldn’t be doing it. I have seen some of these guys drop off so it may not be a profitable proposition.

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I get various newsletters on auction selling. The following is a recent excerpt from THE AUCTION SELLER’s RESOURCE that is particularly relevant in light of a recent situation on eBay. During the past month a seller, ‘pewpepele’, from the Netherlands was using pictures from other auctions. I talked with my eBay support person and Safe Harbor. They closed down some auctions before completion although frustratingly not all until the auctions closed and then they booted the guy.

Hope you find the following advice helpful.
Also, thanks need to go to Paul Munscher (and others) for their information in this matter.

Regards,
Roy More
TSPA

FRAUD ALERT ~ FRAUDSTERS REGISTERING EBAY ACCOUNTS OVERSEAS TO SCAM EBAY US USERS

As I was working on this newsletter my phone rang and it was one of my readers calling from New York asking for help. He purchased a laptop on eBay, sent the payment via PayPal and never heard from the seller again. I looked at the auction and saw that a) the seller had Zero feedback, and b) the seller was just suspended by eBay.

When I was in New York for the eBay Elite meeting, I had a side conversation with several sellers on the topic of fraud. EBay goes to great pains to verify accounts and identities here in the US. Although not perfect, in fact fraud is a tiny percentage of eBay transactions and much smaller in the US than overseas. It turns out that you can register an account on one of eBay’s overseas sites, with far less checking. In some countries eBay doesn’t even require a credit card to register. The scam artists have figured this out and are using it to their advantage.

How can you protect yourself. First of all don’t buy anything expensive from a brand new registered user or some with very low feedback. Just because someone is a new seller doesn’t mean they are a crook, but brand new sellers rarely start selling very expensive items such as computers, digital cameras, and PDAs. An exception to this is eBay motors where new sellers sell cars all the time.

Pay with a credit card. If you pay through PayPal, be sure to fund the transaction with your credit card on file, not an e-check or cash in your account. Credit card companies will reverse the transaction if it is fraudulent. One of the best in this regard in Citibank, although Wells Fargo and others are pretty good about internet refunds as well.

Lastly if sending a large amount of money to another PayPal user, make sure the person is a “verified user.” This is someone who has had their bank account verified by PayPal. You must deal with a verified user if you want to be covered by PayPal’s buyer protection program.

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I see that someone out of Las Vegas has surfaced on eBay offering up a slew of new “replicas” of OA flaps. The seller at least says the following:
“It is a recent replication of an original OA patch and is new, mint condition. It is primarily for people who cannot find the original or maybe can’t afford it if they could find one. This is an affordable alternative. The size and colors may not be exact but close. ”

The list includes:
2 Sakuwit (I don’t understand this, this is a new lodge and flap
Area 6A – 1950 (this was a flap shaped conclave patch)
34 K
64
98 (another modern piece, why?)
380 F1
322 White Fang F2
543 F1
554
159 Ganosote
200
547
401 F2
186 F1
251 F1b
185 S1
184 F1

Here are some pictures:

We are going to end up needing an expertisizing service (which we are working on.)

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