Jamboree 2015???? Tell me its not so!
We just had a visitor in that passed on some interesting “news.” I’m calling it that until I get confirmation. It seems incredibly dumb but that doesn’t mean it can’t happen. The news is that after 2010 the next jamboree is now set for 2015. The reason for the change either from 2014 or even 2013 that I’ve heard was the Scouts’ need for a new jamboree site. The reason this is dumb is that’s the 100th anniversary of the OA.
The short list of sites are ending up with a target location of the mid-Atlantic region. This makes a lot of sense. It is closest to the population centers. There will remain the substantial side tour potentials that don’t exist in other parts of the country. That is, contingents can plan tours to Civil War battlegrounds, Washington, D.C., Philadelphia, historical sites in New York and the New England area, sites in Virginia. The list goes on and on. There had been some speculation that the new jamboree site could be in Texas. I’m sure the state has land and that the Scouts have benefactors to support it but it would be out of the way. But, as one Scout Exec. from Houston pointed out to me at a Philmont training session, “Who wants to camp in Texas in the summer?”
Anyone else able to refute this news or confirm? Inquiring minds want to know.
on November 6th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Roy,
In the rumor and innuendo department, I’ve heard that TMR (Ten Mile River Scout Camps) was the last BSA Camp on the list although there was consideration to buying land in the mid-west (St. Louis area). Nothing about the date though.
Sticking points – Value of the harvested timber in developing the site – who gets it. Also Marcellus Shale and the value of potential natural gas leases, although with the dip in prices probably on the back burner for a while.
Bill
on November 6th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
The site assessment team looked at site near West Plains, MO. Supposedly it was on a list of 10 or fewer sites, but then some power people threw a fit that they did not know or have time to submit a proposal so the search was expanded to a number of new sites.
on November 7th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Bill,
I too heard that TMR was on the list. At first thought, gee would that be large enough but on further reflection most of us don’t know just how big TMR is!
As for the two items you list – timber harvest and gas leases, we are dealing with the same issues and opportunities with some of our Scout property. We do not see the uses as incompatible. That is, timber harvests can actually make for a healthier and safer forest. Oil and gas drilling can be done with limited consequences. I do think that a mid-Atlantic location, ok TMR is a little bit off the Atlantic, makes the most sense. I have family from Kansas and we go through St. Louis. Great city but there really isn’t much to do around there and it will be a LONG haul for most of the country.
Regards,
Roy
on November 7th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Roy,
TMR is about 12,000 acres.
It is about a 90-120 minute drive from Newark Airport less from Stewart or Scranton. 25+/- miles from NY17 (soon to be US 86 and from US84, probably 50 miles from US 81.
Agreed proper stewardship would work with timber and natural gas but who gets the money GYNC or National and how does that effect the price?
The value of the timber harvested on 5000+/- acres that would be used for a National site is not insignifcant. The same goes for the mineral rights for the Natural Gas as the camp is located within the Marcellus Shale.
Bill
on November 7th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Bill,
I think the money goes to the owner. If National buys it from GNYC then it would be in the purchase price. Appraisers know how to value this kind of stuff and you are right – the timber harvest for 5,000 acres could be in the millions. If GNYC continues to own the site then they would get the normal harvest and royalty dollars. A sales contract could even be written where GNYC would continue to get these even if they did sell the property.
Bottom-line, GNYC would get the money in my opinion. A sale to National though would have some merit. It would reduce some of the emotions around decision making as to how best use the proceeds. On the other hand, the mineral and timber resources could be the way to endow the camp so it can’t be sold. This endowment issue is why we have Philmont and why we don’t have Schiff.
How many do you think TMR could hold at one time? Not necessarily in current configuration but in a planned, developed facility. You’re saying roughly 2 square miles.
Roy
on November 7th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Roy,
12,000 acres not 1200. If I remember correctly a square mile is 640 acres. So closer to 20 square miles than 2. Year ago it was said to be the size of Manhattan although I don’t know if that is accurate (the camp was also bigger if memory serves closer to 14000 acres, but non-contiguous pieces have been sold off).
In the 1960’s there were 13 operating camps on the reservation (at the peak). Unless you could see one across the Lake you wouldn’t have known anyone else was around. And there are 6 lakes and at least as many smaller ponds. On the western side of Camp (which I believe was what was under consideration, there is Davis Lake, Rock Lake and Turnpike Lake. Access to the Delaware River too.
on November 7th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
From the Museum website:
“In the summer of 1952, Scout Mark Sobell of Troop 702 in Manhattan, was given an award by former First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt as the 250,000th Scout to attend Ten Mile River. By this time her late husband’s fond dream of a camp which could accommodate 3,500 Scouts at one time had been fully realized. ”
http://tmrmuseum.org/history/history-1924-1969.htm
That is with smaller camps with vast tracts of undeveloped land in between them.
The Red Dot Trial which circles the camp is purportedly 50 miles (although I suspect not truly 50, likely in the low-*mid 40’s).
Bill
on December 1st, 2008 at 2:56 pm
The mean population center of the United States is in Phelps County, Missouri. Texas is not really as “out of the way” as upstate New York for most of us. Texas is as hot as Virginia in the summer, but not so humid in North Texas. TMR would definitely be a more pleasant summer camping environment. But I’m not sure that is the top criteria at play here.
on December 1st, 2008 at 3:24 pm
John,
Its not mean population center but drive time vs. population center. Think of it as population-miles, that is, how far would each person have to drive to get there. Obviously folks from the west coast have a long haul but there is still more population east of the Mississippi and north of the Mason-Dixon line. Actually, you raise a good point – what are the criteria that are being used? As I originally wrote, I think the availability of side tours should be a factor as well.
on April 29th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
“Oil and gas drilling can be done with limited consequences.”
Only someone from the oil and natural gas industry would make such a preposterous and incorrect statement. Educate yourself!