With UPDATE as of 6:35pm CST 1/18/2012 – see below – new file from Terry

From Terry Grove,

Ron Oslin, Jim Erikson and I just finished an amazing day of comparing and sharing about Eagle patches.  This was a follow up to the “summit” we had in Philadelphia a couple months ago.

The new list splits the old Type 2 cut edge patches into two types

• Type 2 – silk thread
• Type 3 – cotton thread

We also have identified cloth used from 1924 through 1955.  The cloth with cut edge is clearly different and the patches have been embroidered unto these materials.  These materials are identified as –

• pre-depression
• heavyweight with printing on the back
• depression cloth with printing on the back
• heavyweight cloth without printing on back
• lightweight without printing on back
• fine twill
• war cloth

Lastly, we have determined that there are five colors within the cut edge patches;

• tan
• olive
• green
• white
• blue

The rolled edge patches are pretty straight-forward.

I am attachingour proposed new listing of Eagle Scout patches for your review and comments. (ED: We’ll post this at the bottom)

Our plan is to roll this out at the Dallas TOR.  Then print it in the ISCA Journal with a first article in March and then a second article in June.

Finally, the list will be included in the rewrite of my Eagle book which will be published in time for NOAC 2012.

So we have plenty of time to tweak the work and make sure we have all the pieces identified.

Terry is hosting a session at the ISCA Dallas TOR this coming weekend. You can e-mail Terry here or visit his web-site.

Eagle Scout Pocket Patches 2003

UPDATE – NEW FILE (old one deleted as this replaces 6:35pm CST 1/18/2012)  Eagle Scout Pocket Patches – NUMBERED SYSTEM

He’s also working on the Eagle Scout knots. Again from Terry:

As you know I am working on rewriting my book with new info to bring it up to date for 2012.

Tomorrow I am hosting a party to work on the Eagle patches. (ED: See the results above) I expect that I will be rolling out a new numbering system at the Dallas TOR.  I have spoken to you about this before.  I am excited.  I will be sharing with you the results of the conference and asking for your support.  I trust you will attend my workshop in Dallas.

I am also working on the Eagle knots.  I am working with Gary Whitman out of Texas.  He has done a yeoman’s job in identifying all knots and knot devices.  My interest is in the Eagle knots only for the book.

The reason I am writing is to ask a huge favor.  I am noticing that you are placing Eagle Knots on eBay.  Therefore you must have a bunch of them in stock.  My favor is this, would you please put all your Eagle knots in one place and either send them to me to look over as I work on the knots OR bring them with you to Dallas and allow me to work through them there.

I need some knots and thus would purchase whatever I need out of your pieces.  I would also like to see them to make sure that we have covered all the different types and variations.

I know it is a lot to ask and much trust, but I am hoping our years of friendship will allow you to make a decision to help in one way or other that I have suggested.

I am attaching a couple excel spread sheets to show you the work that I am doing.  It will give you an idea of the many varieties.

Knot Boards – 1

Knot Boards – 2

If you are interested in this topic and want to provide input, contact Terry. He’ll enjoy hearing from you as he wants to make this the best. (And as an aside, if you don’t agree with Terry, let him know!)

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That’s a common question we get. And one we just got concerning a 2010 National Jamboree patch. Note that the eagle is missing its left wing. See below.

Here was my response.

Quick answer – probably not much. Its a ‘needlebreak’ unless you can find a whole run of these (that is multiples). Its basically an error that got through quality control or more likely the patch company passed on as much inventory as they could convince a buyer to pay for even if it has a flaw.

These are not like stamps and coins with a process that creates perfect pieces every time and an inspection process that culls errors when they do crop up.

Thus, for patches, such flaws not only don’t command a premium but usually are valued at less than a correct specimen. Again, the exception if their are multiple examples of the same difference and then it becomes a variety and might be quite valuable if collectors want the variety.

At best its a curiousity piece. A piece without any bird would be more desirable from a collector’s perpsective.

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For good and bad, eBay is our daily sell-o-ree. eBay keeps forcing collectibles, not just Scout patches, into the same process as commodity, off-the-shelf products. Still, we put up with it for the occaisional find. For me it was recently picking up a variety of the Clark Air Base red and white strip made-in-theater (MIT, which means was made locally in an overseas location.)

In the lot the seller pictured some of the Scout’s membership cards. Previously I wrote about fun side collections that may not cost much, nor be worth much, but are any way fun. The card shown was a Hinode Goya 498 (consistent with the Air Base). The picture showed multiple cards but they were covered up. When I received them one of the cards was a Baluga 538 membership card. Although rarer than the flap it certainly is not as valuable (and no, don’t suggest that I could make my collection by getting a bunch of blanks and writing names in – not kosher and not confirmable.)

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Destry and I were just talking about, for us, the interesting parts of collections are often the paper materials as these give the history. In a small accumulation we got last week it included a little eight page booklet of uniforms for adult leaders. It is from Sigmund Eisner which dates it from 1910 to 1932 with the badges on the sleeve being outlined would place it into the 1920s to early 1930s.

I’ve scanned it in here as actually this is a rare item. It provides wonderful full-color drawings of the uniforms. In Chief Scout Executive James West’s introduction he notes that leaders are obligated, in setting the example, to only use official BSA uniforms (and with profits obviously flowing to the National Office.)

It shows some rarely seen items – the Lumberjack Shirt and the Scout Mackinaw coat. It also lists the types of cloth available including Melton (see my video with Paul Myers about some of these early types of cloth), two weights of Serge, Whipcord, and Gabardine. On the back it indicates that a leader could get made-to-measure, i.e., custom-fitted, uniforms. All in all, very trick IMHO.

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Needing to vent here. I would have thought these would have gone out of fashion. Maybe they have but we deal with vintage patches. But ghost patches are a real pain for my getting older eyes. IFFFF you read closely you can read that is is from Amangamek Wipit 470 but white on white does not make it easy. Why’d we ever get into this in the first place? (Actually, the answer to this question is that Mike Welsh of Welsh Industries came up with a patch marketing idea with the birth of a white buffalo in August, 1994 which has some symbolic significance to certain native American tribes.)

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In the category of ‘things forgotten but now remembered’, we recently handled a proof edition of the Scoutmaster handbook. A question from a collector got us digging into our reference shelves as there are actually four variations of the “PROOF” edition. The editions range from 203 pages, this one circa 1912, two versions with 161 pages and the final proof edition with 344 pages from March, 1913. The quantity made of the first three are unknown.

The reference book of choice is Chuck Fisk and Doug Bearce’s Collecting Scouting Literature/2nd edition published in 1990. And thus the ‘things forgotten’ observation – this book is 2o years old and yet its still the best, and most accessible out there but most current collectors do not know of this book. Not sure the solution to this problem – how do we keep these books up to date and let folks know about them.

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I’ve recently been trading e-mails with an early lodge chief from Narraticong Lodge 9 out of New Jersey. This lodge was the result of the merger of Cowaw 9 and Sakawawin 287 in 1969.

My e-mail pen pal was a lodge chief and eventual Area chief. He put me onto a nice history web-site for Narraticong (such as why their totem was a mosquito).
http://www.cnjc-bsa.org/lodges/naricong/index.htm

What is nice about the new Blue Book is that these kind of pages can be posted into the lodge listings. Growing and sharing this kind of information and history makes our collections more meaningful, in my opinion.

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The Board for the new council here in Michigan approved at its first meeting new Field Service Council (FSC) boundaries. FSCs are a new concept in the Scouting structure that we’re developing. Although there is one legal entity there are at this time four (4) local delivery entities who’s primary purpose is unit support. The Coordinating Council, also sometimes referred to as the “Administrative Council”, integrates back office functions and achieves economies of scale that we could not achieve as individual councils. Basically we have been silos working within our boundaries. One of the goals of the Crossroads Recommendation is to not compete with each other but compete  to bring more youth to Scouting.

Here’s the new boundaries approved at the meeting. When will these be effective? Soon but still being worked out.

Note – the boundaries between FSCs is dotted. These will flex over time depending upon who can best serve the needs of a given unit. Within Field Service Councils we may well have additional Community Service Councils that are even more focused on unit service – MMM – membership, manpower and of course money. We’ve had discussions where our shoulder wear will change to the community level. Not as specific as red and white community strips that collectors know but more specific than council shoulder strips we’re used to seeing.

The criteria used are on this slide. The Unit Serving Executives to Total Available Youth ratio is about a third better than the current ‘gold standard’ for the national dashboard metrics in Journey to Excellence.

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Right now this is in the rumor mill but the OA National Committee is following through on its policy one charter – one lodge. The biggest outlier in this is Greater New York Councils which is technically one council but each of the burroughs operate with a lot of autonomy and they each have their own lodge several being some of the oldest in the country (e.g., Ranachaqua 4 and Shu-shu-gah 24). Anyone have any more knowledge about this situation either to confirm or refute?

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