1920s Camp Biddle patch brings $787

Posted on August 13th, 2012 in Camps,Hobby Trends by ramore

Many know that we here have a passion for vintage Scout camp patches. A couple of felts popped up on eBay this week from Philadelphia Council and have now closed. One is from Treasure Island. The other ascribed to Camp Biddle.

The Treasure Island patch is a known but certainly uncommon felt. It is cut out of felt in the shape of the initials of the camp. Several collections have one. If memory serves me, they may exist in different colors of felt. This one was red or maroon. It brought $355.

To us the more interesting to us was one ascribed to Camp Biddle. Camp Biddle is not listed in the first edition of the Sherman/Minnihan Camp Book. This item brought a VERY respectable $787 even in this condition.

Now don’t get to thinking every felt camp patch is a multi-hundred dollar item. There was a 1931 Treasure Island that brought $206 which is healthy for this patch and there’s a 1949 Hidden Valley up at minimum bid of $25 that may not get a bid.

 

eBay Volumes Continue to Trend Down

Posted on August 6th, 2012 in Hobby Trends by ramore

One would think that with NOAC over that we would see volumes up on eBay. But no, they’re continuing to trend down. Right now we’re showing 65,400 listings plus or minus with 11,500 auctions. The auction count is due to NOAC and is about 20% higher than current trends. Late summer is the usual lull, apart from the Christmas to New Year holiday week. We are up from last year at this time when there was no US national event. But we’re down from 20% a year ago last May.

Now, the hobby is strong. Scouting collectibles, other than modern B.S., are strong. But the eBay platform is failing us. Yet the eyeballs are still there. Not sure how this resolves itself. But its a slow, lingering drain until eBay better understands collectible auctions (although they are quite good at getting the most dollars into their pocket even to the detriment of their sellers.)

 

Heresy and NOAC 2012 Patches

Posted on July 10th, 2012 in Hobby Trends by ramore

A realtor friend of mine once said she was told, when asked “How is the real estate market?” to answer “Unbelievable.” It could be unbelievably good. Or, it could be unbelievably bad!

This thought comes to mind based upon conversations I’ve recently had with senior collectors and dealers. This may be heresy as a patch dealer but here goes – We may have passed the point where councils and lodges are making more patches than our wallets can afford. I mark it as possible heresy as a dealer and market maker some think we should always be upbeat and optimistic. We are. When we’re talking about true collectibles.  But much of what is coming out now feels more like Beanie Babies than collectibles.

Ask yourself – how many of the new CSPs ever get put on a uniform? Or the new NOAC issues coming out? Even the delegate issues aren’t going on shirts because they’re “valuable.” To whom? If you “only” made 50, 2/ delegate member, if their aren’t 50 collectors who care then there’s more supply than demand. Not a healthy thing.

There will be a lot of fun in trading these new patches. That’s great for now and in the future. Some of these patches may maintain their interest and demand but history indicates otherwise. A recent anecdote was a contact from a Scout, now Scouter, that had a set of the 2005 Marin Yoda JSPs. We told them they may be worth $5 to $10 each. He was shocked! He thought the set should be worth at least $200 since they were bringing $100 right after that Jamboree. We told him that would have been the best time to have sold them. We were probably being optimistic in our estimate.

Where does this lead? We spend a fair amount of time discussing this amongst our team. We think it means true rare issues that fit main collecting themes such as First Flaps, WAB issues, First Issues, etc.. go up as people drop off of collecting everything even for their state. It means that secondary issues and especially manufactured issues will decline in value especially after folks have filled them in. It also means that some of these pieces will maintain and maybe even increase their value over time due to true scarcity and demand in the lodge or area.  But it also means most are worthless about month after the event.

Update: After writing this, I remembered another big example. At the 1985 National Jamboree enamel/cloissone hat pins were all the rage. Where are they now? We have to price them at a certain point just for the shipping/packaging but they’re only collected for local interest. Now as a counter-point, think of OA Caldwell pins. In 1985 they could be acquired for $100 – $200. Now they often go for 10 times that, if they can be found!

 

Air Scout Patch Prices Solid

Posted on June 22nd, 2012 in Exploring,Hobby Trends by ramore

We’re regularly asked for our opinions on hobby trends and prices. Although this is the deepest recession most of us have ever gone through the evidence is that Scout memorabilia are a solid collectible. Case in point  – long time dealer Jim Clough, himself an Air Scout Ace, recently posted a selection of Air Scout memorabilia on eBay that have now closed.

This program was started in the mid-1940s and ended in the early 1960s. It never was a particularly large program. At its peak it may have had 8,000 Scouts in a given year. I, and I think others, find it some of the most distinctive insignia the BSA ever produced. Even with eBay now flooded with Scout listings due to a free listing special, these items brought solid and arguably record prices.

For example, here’s a set of Air Scout rating strips that Jim offered.

Mostly all mint but not all (Ace Airman looks used). Price realized: $1,775.

My ‘hip pocket’ value for this set was $1,000 – $1,200. Individual prices would add up to more but I’ve always found it emotionally hard to break a set as it is a challenging set to put together.

Other prices realized for Air Scout items he offered:

Air Scout ranks with ‘Air Scout’

1 prop MB $38 (no sale)

2 prop MB $75 (no sale)

3 prop MB $125 (no sale)

4 prop $195 (sold)

 

Air Scout ranks w/o ‘Air Scout’

1 prop MB $90 (no sale)

2 prop MB $150 (no sale)

3 prop (highest made) $360 (sold)

Air Exploring ranks with ‘Air Exploring’

1 prop not offered

2 prop $150 (sold)

3 prop $270 (sold)

4 prop $470 (sold)

As an aside, he also offered an Air Scout numeral, 7, which brought the minimum bid of $25. Again, a VERY tough series to put together.

I’ll pull out my price reference books for some historical comparisons.

 

Nine Things That Will Disappear In Our Lifetime

Posted on May 28th, 2012 in General Commentary on Life,Hobby Trends by ramore

This list was broadcast around via e-mail, at least that’s how I first found out about it. Its from a blog out of England . It makes for an interesting read but I here want to focus on item ‘8’.  Now as collectors we truly never ‘own’ our things but are caretakers for the next provider. But, will we go virtual as is described in this write-up? I sincerely doubt it.

Here’s why, IMHO. OAImages.com is a great reference site (as is OABlueBook.com) but images are not the real thing. Back in 2005 I took a group of youth including my son to Washington, DC and then the National Jamboree. In touring the National Museum it struck me when looking at an original Andrew Wyeth painting and then later looking at high-quality coffee-table size books that reproduced the original. Its just not the same. I blogged about it at the time. We’re seven years later but the observation still holds true.

A book can be digitized as well as music although those with ears better than mine will rightfully say that the original has to be modified going from something that is inherently analog when converting it to digital. Oh well… here’s the list. I think generally its true with many coming much quicker than many realize.

 

Whether these changes are good or bad depends in part, on how we adapt to them. But, ready or not, here they come.

1. The Post Office

Get ready to imagine a world without the post office. They are so deeply in financial trouble that there is probably no way to sustain it long term. Email, Fed Ex, and UPS have just about wiped out the minimum revenue needed to keep the post office alive. Most of your mail every day is junk mail and bills.

 

2. The Check

Britain is already laying the groundwork to do away with cheques by 2018. It costs the financial system billions of dollars a year to process cheques. Plastic cards and online transactions will lead to the eventual demise of the cheque. This plays right into the death of the post office. If you never paid your bills by mail and never received them by mail, the post office would absolutely go out of business

3. The Newspaper

The younger generation simply doesn’t read the newspaper. They certainly don’t subscribe to a daily delivered print edition. That may go the way of the milkman and the laundry man. As for reading the paper online, get ready to pay for it. The rise in mobile Internet Devices and e-readers has caused all the newspaper and magazine publishers to form an alliance. They have met with Apple, Amazon, and the major cell phone companies to develop a model for paid subscription services.

 

4. The Book

You say you will never give up the physical book that you hold in your hand and turn

the literal pages. I said the same thing about downloading music from iTunes. I wanted my hard copy CD. But I quickly changed my mind when I discovered that I could get albums for half the price without ever leaving home to get the latest music. The same thing will happen with books. You can browse a bookstore online and even read a preview chapter before you buy. And the price is less than half that of a real book. And think of the convenience! Once you start flicking your fingers on the screen instead of the book, you find that you are lost in the story, can’t wait to see what happens next, and you forget that you’re holding a gadget instead of a book.

 

5. The Land Line Telephone

Unless you have a large family and make a lot of local calls, you don’t need it anymore. Most people keep it simply because they’ve always had it. But you are paying double charges for that extra service. All the cell phone companies will let you call customers using the same cell provider for no charge against your minutes

6. Music

This is one of the saddest parts of the change story. The music industry is dying a slow death. Not just because of illegal downloading. It’s the lack of innovative new music being given a chance to get to the people who would like to hear it. Greed and corruption is the problem. The record labels and the radio conglomerates are simply self-destructing. Over 40% of the music purchased today is “catalogue items,” meaning traditional music that the public is familiar with. Older established artists. This is also true on the live concert circuit. To explore this fascinating and disturbing topic further, check out the book, “Appetite for Self-Destruction” by Steve Knopper, and the video documentary,

“Before the Music Dies.”

7. Television

Revenues to the networks are down dramatically. Not just because of the economy. People are watching TV and movies streamed from their computers. And they’re playing games and doing lots of other things that take up the time that used to be spent watching TV. Prime time shows have degenerated down to lower than the lowest common denominator. Cable rates are skyrocketing and commercials run about every 4 minutes and 30 seconds. I say good riddance to most of it. It’s time for the cable companies to be put out of our misery. Let the people choose what they want to watch online and through Netflix.

  1. The “Things” That You Own

Many of the very possessions that we used to own are still in our lives, but we may not actually own them in the future. They may simply reside in “the cloud.” Today your computer has a hard drive and you store your pictures, music, movies, and documents. Your software is on a CD or DVD, and you can always re-install it if need be. But all of that is changing. Apple, Microsoft, and Google are all finishing up their latest “cloud services.”

 

That means that when you turn on a computer, the Internet will be built into the operating system. So, Windows, Google, and the Mac OS will be tied straight into the Internet. If you click an icon, it will open something in the Internet cloud. If you save something, it will be saved to the cloud. And you may pay a monthly subscription fee to the cloud provider.

 

In this virtual world, you can access your music or your books, or your whatever from any laptop or handheld device. That’s the good news. But, will you actually own any of this “stuff” or will it all be able to disappear at any moment in a big “Poof?” Will most of the things in our lives be disposable and whimsical? It makes you want to run to the closet and pull out that photo album, grab a book from the shelf, or open up a CD case and pull out the insert.

 

9. Privacy

If there ever was a concept that we can look back on nostalgically, it would be privacy. That’s gone! There are cameras on the street, in most of the buildings, and even built into your computer and cell phone. But you can be sure that 24/7, “They” know who you are and where you are, right down to the GPS coordinates, and the Google Street View. If you buy something, your habit is put into a zillion profiles, and your ads will change to reflect those habits.

What’s it worth? Needlebreak edition

Posted on January 15th, 2012 in Hobby Trends,Jamborees by ramore

That’s a common question we get. And one we just got concerning a 2010 National Jamboree patch. Note that the eagle is missing its left wing. See below.

Here was my response.

Quick answer – probably not much. Its a ‘needlebreak’ unless you can find a whole run of these (that is multiples). Its basically an error that got through quality control or more likely the patch company passed on as much inventory as they could convince a buyer to pay for even if it has a flaw.

These are not like stamps and coins with a process that creates perfect pieces every time and an inspection process that culls errors when they do crop up.

Thus, for patches, such flaws not only don’t command a premium but usually are valued at less than a correct specimen. Again, the exception if their are multiple examples of the same difference and then it becomes a variety and might be quite valuable if collectors want the variety.

At best its a curiousity piece. A piece without any bird would be more desirable from a collector’s perpsective.

 

 

 

Ghost Patches Are A Pain

Posted on January 3rd, 2012 in Hobby Trends,OA by ramore

Needing to vent here. I would have thought these would have gone out of fashion. Maybe they have but we deal with vintage patches. But ghost patches are a real pain for my getting older eyes. IFFFF you read closely you can read that is is from Amangamek Wipit 470 but white on white does not make it easy. Why’d we ever get into this in the first place? (Actually, the answer to this question is that Mike Welsh of Welsh Industries came up with a patch marketing idea with the birth of a white buffalo in August, 1994 which has some symbolic significance to certain native American tribes.)

The Proof Edition Scoutmaster Handbooks

Posted on December 21st, 2011 in BSA Info,Hobby Trends,Insignia by ramore

In the category of ‘things forgotten but now remembered’, we recently handled a proof edition of the Scoutmaster handbook. A question from a collector got us digging into our reference shelves as there are actually four variations of the “PROOF” edition. The editions range from 203 pages, this one circa 1912, two versions with 161 pages and the final proof edition with 344 pages from March, 1913. The quantity made of the first three are unknown.

The reference book of choice is Chuck Fisk and Doug Bearce’s Collecting Scouting Literature/2nd edition published in 1990. And thus the ‘things forgotten’ observation – this book is 2o years old and yet its still the best, and most accessible out there but most current collectors do not know of this book. Not sure the solution to this problem – how do we keep these books up to date and let folks know about them.

New FSC Boundaries Established for Michigan

Posted on November 9th, 2011 in BSA Info,CSP,Hobby Trends,RWS,Shoulder Wear by ramore

The Board for the new council here in Michigan approved at its first meeting new Field Service Council (FSC) boundaries. FSCs are a new concept in the Scouting structure that we’re developing. Although there is one legal entity there are at this time four (4) local delivery entities who’s primary purpose is unit support. The Coordinating Council, also sometimes referred to as the “Administrative Council”, integrates back office functions and achieves economies of scale that we could not achieve as individual councils. Basically we have been silos working within our boundaries. One of the goals of the Crossroads Recommendation is to not compete with each other but compete  to bring more youth to Scouting.

Here’s the new boundaries approved at the meeting. When will these be effective? Soon but still being worked out.

Note – the boundaries between FSCs is dotted. These will flex over time depending upon who can best serve the needs of a given unit. Within Field Service Councils we may well have additional Community Service Councils that are even more focused on unit service – MMM – membership, manpower and of course money. We’ve had discussions where our shoulder wear will change to the community level. Not as specific as red and white community strips that collectors know but more specific than council shoulder strips we’re used to seeing.

 

The criteria used are on this slide. The Unit Serving Executives to Total Available Youth ratio is about a third better than the current ‘gold standard’ for the national dashboard metrics in Journey to Excellence.

 

Michigan Councils Vote To Integrate

Posted on November 1st, 2011 in BSA Info,General Commentary on Life,Hobby Trends by ramore

Previously I’ve shared information about what is called “The Area Project”, Area Project – Designing Scouting for the 21st Century and Michigan Councils Take Next Step In Integrating,  an effort by Central Region’s Area 2 volunteers to create a new structure for Scouting. Tonight all nine (9) councils who put the recommendation to join together to their governance approved the recommendation. That is, we’ve agreed to integrate together to become one, new council. This is the first new council since the 1940s as it is not a merger of existing councils into one successor council.

I’ve shared with some recently a quote from futurist Buckminster Fuller:

You never change things by fighting the existing model.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.

Well we’re on this course. Tonight’s a night of celebration but when we wake up tomorrow we have to begin the implementation. The bottom-line will be bringing more youth to Scouting in Michigan.

Update: Here’s a note I just sent to a friend from outside the area:

Deal is done. Vote passed state-wide. Of votes turned in it was 9 to 1 in favor. Basically we’re creating a new structure by pealing away a lot, unfortunately not all, of the calcification that has come from the bureaucracy over the past 100 years. Scouting-sclerosis I call the disease we have. We’re competing with each other rather than growing the pie – that is more kids in Scouting rather than “We’ll fill our camp by recruiting Scouts from other councils.” That any Board would suggest this is myopic thinking at best.

Implementation is the next hurdle.

159 Ganosote

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